Dungeons & Disciples

Josh Shaw 0:00
Music.

Tony Benda 0:19
Hello everyone, and welcome back to dungeons and disciples episode 13. It has been an interesting time getting scheduling on the board, because we keep forgetting that we're doing a show, you know, like, every two weeks or whatever, and then all of a sudden it's the second week, and we haven't fully recorded yet. And I'm like, wait a second, we have to record by Thursday, so I could edit by Thursday and then try to get out on time, like we promised the listeners from the very beginning. But all that to say, my name is Tony Benda, and I am the co host here on dungeons and disciples, and I'm so grateful to be a part of this podcast with you all listening today. And across from me

Josh Shaw 0:58
is Joshua Shaw. I like to think of myself as the co host, and Tony is the host. We're co hosts. We are just, can you have we're just wait.

Tony Benda 1:10
We're bro hosts.

Josh Shaw 1:11
We're there we go. I was really trying to formulate a thought, and it just didn't really happen. I'm gonna be honest with you. You can see Tony does all the editing and a lot of everything, and really, I just kind of sat in his office and ate Chipotle tonight.

I mean, I poured so much into this episode,

I don't let him even I literally just watched Tony send emails and do all this stuff. And frankly, said, We gotta, we gotta record and edit. I'm just like, munching down on a steak on a steak burrito bowl. And I'm like, All right, um Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a title on the Google document. He did more than a title.

Tony Benda 1:53
So Josh's brain child, first of all, was this show, and second, it was, well, not even second, but 13th, it was this episode. So we have been there's, we have a a working Apple note that has all these different ideas in here. And this one has been on the books for months. I like this one. We just haven't talked about it yet, you

Josh Shaw 2:15
know. And really cool thing about that, like that Apple Word document, is I just, I'm on it all the time, because random things will just come into my mind. And a lot of times there's episodes that are just like, maybe there, and they're like, I'll scrap that, or I'll just keep it and sit on it. And then one day, I'll be just like, going through something, and I'll look at it and be like, yeah, now is the time. Now is the time. That's what we're gonna

Tony Benda 2:34
do. There are times that I like, am driving, I'm like, Siri, create a reminder, or Siri take a note. And she does, and it's wonderful. And no turn off

Josh Shaw 2:45
all that to say when it comes to this podcast, Tony, I'm so thankful for you and what you do, because thinking about everything I would have had to do without you would stress me out so bad.

Tony Benda 3:00
Well, thank you for your contributions to this show as well.

Josh Shaw 3:05
I can't even type in my MacBook password right half the time, let alone try to edit an entire episode.

Josh. Back to myself. Josh is the spiritual grounding rod of this show,

grounding rod, yeah. What is a grounding Road?

Tony Benda 3:21
A grounding road, I

Josh Shaw 3:22
actually don't know what that is. Is that a real thing? Or just make that up?

Tony Benda 3:26
No. Grounding rod is a real thing. What is that? I actually, many readers don't know. What does a grounding rod do? A grounding rod, primary purpose is to provide a safe path for excess electrical current to flow into the ground, protecting people and equipment from dangerous situations. So in a sense, you are spiritual, grounding rod, protecting us from dangerous situations.

Josh Shaw 3:48
Have you seen the movie over the hedge?

Tony Benda 3:51
I have. It's been a long time.

Josh Shaw 3:52
I just think of that. What's the squirrels name? It's Steve curls. Character, harm, Hammy. Hammy. I just, I just think about hammy when he gets when he's like, providing that electrical current, and he's just standing there, just getting electric good to squirrel. I just feel like Hammy. Like, I feel like my brain is hammy about like, 90% of the time when I write, when I do anything like, I'll just wake up, no, just like, start to I'm not gonna say C's is the right word, but it's so that's how we start the episode today.

Tony Benda 4:27
There's some of that being cut.

Josh Shaw 4:28
I mean, we're we're just, honestly, just rejoicing, celebrating and kind of processing through everything here, which Tony again, one of our really fun, cheesy ways we can introduce our episode today. Today, we're going to be talking about what it truly means to rejoice, celebrate and processing through good and bad times. Drum roll please. Our episode titled today is. Z carnivals and Caravan stops.

Tony Benda 5:06
Insert horn sound here. That's what I tried to do, but it didn't work so well.

Josh Shaw 5:12
But I think today's episode is going to be really, really fun, especially because as believers, I think, I think we go into like these hilltop or the this, like mountain top and valley seasons, where there's times where we're rejoicing about what God has done, and then there's times where we're kind of in these, like valleys where we're just like, I have no idea what's going on, and how in the world am I supposed to praise God through that? But before we even get there, I think a beautiful thing about rejoicing and celebrating, and kind of why we call it carnivals and Caravan stops, is when we look in the world of D and D, there's a lot of cool things you can do regarding these kinds of things, like I've played one shots. We've done it in our campaign where we've actually been to a carnival. And I think these kinds of events really just enrich gameplay. If you put them in the right position, they can take some kind of dark literature you've been through. Or what do they call it? Literature? Like, what are we scholars? Some scholars, biblical scholars. Biblical sort Oh, yeah. Says my bachelor degree. I guess technically you have it. Use it. I wouldn't use the one scholar. But it take, we take the dark moments from the things that we do in campaigns, and we can take these carnivals and like, hey, let's give the characters a little bit of light in those situations that kind of lighten the mood, and let players just get creative and participate in some fun things, and honestly, even just do, like, controlled shenanigans, yeah, when you really think about it, but also, and that's kind of more the carnival aspect, but we can also do stuff like caravan stops, like we we stopped at a caravan stop early on in our campaign, and it was, it allowed us to kind of process through the journey we had taken, process through stories and even Zooks character had a complete what would you call it? You called it something earlier? Oh, my God, not a story arc.

Tony Benda 7:13
Yeah, that well, the trajectory of my story, yes, yeah.

Josh Shaw 7:16
I mean, essentially, yeah. But it was, it was really cool Tony and I want to spend a moment just talking about like as a DM, as a player. Can you describe like the benefits? Let's start with carnivals, right? So, like, what is the benefit of a carnival? How would you do a carnival? What kind of shenanigans would you get

Tony Benda 7:36
involved in? Well, carnivals have all sorts of things they've got, first of all, delicious fried food and then sweet food, and then fried sweet food, and then all the fun games and rides and things like that. So there's so many different like, I guess, side quests we could do, if we were doing it from a DND perspective, if we wanted to write some sort of story in there, we can have, like, a ring leader be or the circus. Circus ring leader guy be kind of like a good guy or a bad guy, or, I don't know, there's different story arcs you can have with a circus theme. But circuses are fun. They're supposed to be fun. There's some really creepy circuses out there, yes, especially with all the clowns. Anyway, i Huh? Carnivals can be high points, both in D and D and in life, because there's a lot of really fun things you can do in a carnival. But then there's also, like, different, like I said, side quests you can do. So you can go off in these different hands, doing all these different things. But there are carnival moments, especially where joy is abundant, like, Oh, that's

Josh Shaw 8:41
a good term.

Tony Benda 8:42
Yeah, you wrote the term, did I Yeah? These are Oh moments. I

Josh Shaw 8:49
did write it. Yeah, wow, that was good. I'm writing that.

Tony Benda 8:57
I'd even say, like, in our own lives, like one of our side quests. I'm gonna call it a side quest, I guess, having kids, yeah, I mean, that is a very life giving in many ways. I

Josh Shaw 9:12
love how you've heard that as a side quest.

Tony Benda 9:14
I don't

Josh Shaw 9:15
know, question mark, question mark. I don't know if I'm confident. I look at my kids and say, Hey, you're a side I love you, but you were a side quest.

Tony Benda 9:24
Okay, let me rephrase that. Having kids is not a side quest. That is a wonderful main story, but it's the beginning of someone else's story. So like, Ooh, that's good. I don't know. I've been told like in our lives, like we're the main character of our story. So, like, even Josh's interaction with me, Josh, you're, you're not a primary character in my story. I'm the primary character in my story. Ooh, yeah, you're a secondary character according to, like, a normal storytelling world of whatever, so kids, I guess, would essentially be another, I don't know. I. When

Josh Shaw 10:00
I think of carnivals, and especially applying them to characters, I think of like any kind of like, when you do like games or, I guess, rides, or anything like applying those things to character strengths. So, like, I've never DM before, but as a DM, if I were going to introduce a carnival, let's say, and this is anybody can use this kind of Con. Kind of content. We're just kind of brainstorming chat and having fun here, but if I was going to do a carnival, I would take the time to look at like the characters, who they are, what's their attributes, what's their strengths, and kind of entice characters to come to those games, like, in our story, when Kanan was alive, that dude was a big, beefy boy.

Tony Benda 10:47
He was so, what

Josh Shaw 10:48
did he do? Hot Dog Eating Contest. Or, I

Tony Benda 10:51
don't know if it was like a hot dog or it was like a, it was a pie eating contest, wasn't it? It was, it was a pie eating contest. Like, these berry pies, you and then a couple other people were involved in, like, yeah, this berry eating, berry pie eating contest. But

Josh Shaw 11:05
so it was me and jareks character, that's what we did, and meat pies, because I remember it was the middle of night, but I had to, like, participating in this. And I had to, like, roll for checks, yeah, to keep eating and to keep bearing it down, yes. And which Mike, I mean, Constitution was crazy high,

Tony Benda 11:24
yeah.

Josh Shaw 11:24
But in that time, the reward that I got from, I don't remember exactly what the metal of meat pie did, but it, um, it was really cool to receive that reward and get the benefit of it. I remember Zooks character. I think you were like, I remember if you did like a maze, or like a puzzle

Tony Benda 11:43
I did that was, it was some sort of puzzle. I believe that got me the Medal of wit, yes. And that was in call, the call of the other D, yeah, the Medal of me pie was, you gain two d4, plus two temporary hit points when you use an action to press the metal to your mouth. Once this property has been used, it cannot be used again. I remember that now, yeah, and the middle becomes non magical. While magical, this metal is slightly warm to the touch, as if it's fresh from the oven, and smells faintly of baked pie crust. But

Josh Shaw 12:18
one thing I remember Steven doing is not, we're not just, like, they weren't just something we found he made it. As a DM was able to, like, entice the character, like, hey, this like, off in the distance. Like, roll a perception check, hey, you roll it, and you say, Hey, you kind of notice this off in the distance, and it's kind of intriguing to you. Yep, yeah. And as a character, you can choose to move into that, or you can walk away from that. But there was something. There's something for everybody in it. There's something that we can all celebrate. And in that time, you can use your character to, you know, shine in the weirdest and most funny, awkward characteristics and things, and you can participate in things that your character may not ever participate in, and you don't know the next time you'll go into those kinds of moments. I mean, that was that Carnival was, like, it was a pretty high point. That was a high point for us, but like, we haven't been to anything like that in probably 40 sessions, 3040, sessions, not

Tony Benda 13:19
a carnival specifically, but we did do

Josh Shaw 13:22
a game show. Oh, okay, yeah. Okay. Again, same thing, like, same, same kind of, same kind of principles, right? Random, random high point things that you can incorporate into the story to make it so that your characters don't get dry in the middle of, in the darkest times, like, especially in, like, a dark campaign, like, what can you do as a dam to incorporate those things

Tony Benda 13:44
there are, there are so many cool things like you said that that Steven has interjected in our campaign. We've had the high points where we've had these, you know, huge wins, and then we've had the super low points with character deaths. Yeah, it could be a struggle, but you need that balance of really good storytelling and high points and, like, mountain top experiences and then low points in the valleys, and which kind of reminds me of, like, kids camp all of a sudden, yeah, going to go into camp as youth students, or as a kid like, you know, at least church camps, you're Going away and, you know, having these, you know, mountaintop God experiences, and then people come back, and they're, like, struggling with stuff. And how many of you out there can really relate to a

Josh Shaw 14:30
kids camp like that, just coming back? I mean, I remember going to fuge camps in New Mexico, yeah. And, I mean, coming back, I mean, like, within the first eight hours I experienced, like the high, like the high point of who Christ was, and about three hours later, I was in tears, like contemplating what I've done with my entire life.

Tony Benda 14:49
Yeah, it's these existential crises. As soon as you walk off the camp property, like, there is

Josh Shaw 14:53
not No this was on Camp property. This is like sitting there praising God and worshiping, and I'm like, I. Um, oh, what's the move? It's like tangled, like she comes down from the tower and she's like, on grass, like rolling around, and like, a second later, shit transitions to her, just like, I'm the worst person, like, in camp, I actively did that. I was like, yes, Jesus, you are the one. You are my Messiah. And then, like, I walk out into the ground, and I'm like, I am awful. Why am I like this?

Tony Benda 15:25
There's a lot of people that would relate to that. I'm sure. If you're a

Josh Shaw 15:29
youth pastor, I'm really sorry, yeah, no, actually, no, not. It's a really great experience, and it's good to see. But my, my, my, you're gonna sleep, you're gonna lay your head down in the bunks with the kids, and you're like, Why did I do this to myself? Yeah, when you finally get to bed at 2am like, when you think about your high school life and you're like, What? What made me decide to want to do this after getting shot with Nerf guns and jumping into a river that you're not sure is actually purified and pied in the face with shaving cream, hide in the face and shot with a paintball gun and watching a guy bent a frying pan for some reason, yep, eating the worst baby food in competition. I feel like all of that has accumulated to everything I've been through in youth ministry and as a youth student. Yep, I don't think I've been to a single youth camp where there wasn't a guy bending a frying pan. Sounds

like the Power Team.

I don't know what it was. It's like every youth camp I went to, like, the biggest thing was, like, watch man Ben frying pan. And I'm like,

Tony Benda 16:24
Yeah, fortunately, they were these old, weak frying pans, hopefully as a team. I'm

Josh Shaw 16:28
like, This is great, me and us. And no, I'm like, again,

Tony Benda 16:34
how many of you guys out there actually remember the Power Team? Shoot us a shoot us a message. If you remember the Power Team and who they are, I actually, I Okay, so the Power Team was this,

Josh Shaw 16:46
wait, yes, I do. Weren't they, like, a group of, like, basically bodybuilders proclaiming Christ. I do know who you're talking about. I don't think I've ever seen the actual power team, but I I've heard of them somewhere. I don't know where. I think, honestly, Jayla might have shown that to me, which is per the group of world class athletes who have performed the world's greatest exhibitions of power, strength, speed, inspiration and motivation in every state and in over 40 countries for over

Tony Benda 17:16
30 years. Sounds like the Harlem Globetrotters were Christian. They use their talents to spread the gospel and inspire people around the world to make positive changes in their lives. So I'm not sure if the Power Team is still it looks like they're still functioning in today's day and age. So let me know if you guys have experienced the Power Team in your church experience either growing up or currently, love to hear.

Josh Shaw 17:43
Let us know if you remember the Power Team. Oh, that'd be awesome. That'd be actually kind of

Tony Benda 17:47
cool. I met so at the Nazarene church that I went to in southwest, Southern Chicago. For many years, the Power Team came. I think I saw them twice at our church. They were it was a cool show when I was like younger, and right, they're ripping phone books on stage. And I would say that was a high point. So,

Josh Shaw 18:09
so what about caravan stops? Tony,

Tony Benda 18:12
well, I mentioned the the not so side quest of having a child being a high point. I'm going to counter that with one of the dark things in life is, is loss. I would describe a caravan stop as a low point, not all the time. Can it be, does it have to be low though? It could be a moment of like reflection or questioning things, humbling experiences. One of the low points, like I said, could be loss of someone,

Josh Shaw 18:42
even, like times of waiting, seasons of doubt, yep, feeling disconnected from what we feel our assignment is maybe just feeling disconnected from God. I think, I think one of the things I struggle with is, is like, it's really good to praise God on the mountain tops, but like, how do we do it in the valleys? You know, we try to claw ourselves out of this pit so often, without God in our lives, we have, we really have this, like, do it ourselves mentality a lot. But without him, we can, we can't do anything. Book of John says that, like, apart from me, you can do nothing. And now that doesn't mean like free will is excluded, like you have the free will to physically do something, but trying to accomplish something, trying to attain the things of Christ, without Christ doesn't make sense. And I think so often in our care, at our caravan stops. You know, one thing interesting about our caravan stop is each character did something innately different. Yeah, Zuck was seeking wisdom. Yes, advancing, like advancing his own personal story plot. Elroy was pondering and thinking. Canaan was grieving and exhibiting fear. Creon was chasing his tail with his nine intelligence.

It's true, I

don't remember what exact I think he was trying to flirt with, like an or an orc or no,

Tony Benda 20:18
that was you. Was that? Oh,

Josh Shaw 20:19
that was me,

Tony Benda 20:20
that was your character flirting with the orc at the caravan. So

Josh Shaw 20:23
I do remember there was a lot of grieving in that one. Yeah,

Tony Benda 20:28
there was a lot of that's not a bad thing. Like Josh was saying Zook was experience. My character was experiencing a weird point in his life after the the death of his mother that he, first of all, didn't know was alive, and then found out she was alive, but she was sick, only to find out that by the time he went to go visit her, she had passed the day before, so there was a lot there. So

Josh Shaw 20:55
now it's an orphan and all sorts of stuff, yeah,

Tony Benda 20:58
and so he was looking for some sort of balance, and ran into this order of like some kind of monk order, and started talking with this guy, and all of a sudden, was on a path to finding balance in his life through some sort of monk order. And it was really cool. And

Josh Shaw 21:20
now you can face time with an era Cocker. That's true as a DM too. It's really important to include caravan stop moments too. It doesn't have to be done through a caravan stop, per se, but including moments where there is no danger, there is no anything, but just a simple stop for the characters to sit and reflect and think about Yep, things, let them, just let the characters be. Yeah. Characters good,

Tony Benda 21:46
yeah. Characters need the processing time.

Josh Shaw 21:48
We all need processing time. Yeah. You know, it's important to just as a DM, just let the characters be and let them, let it happen the way it happens. You know, if you feel it right as a DM, or even as a player, like as a DM, let the moment happen, let them process how they process through some of the things that they've been through, and honestly, some really cool storytelling might come of it. As a player, play the character the way you would process it. The character I was playing at the time was a recovering alcoholic, abused child and basically excommunicated from an order that was now hunting him like he didn't know how to process a lot of these things. So he was but I allowed that character to process in a way that advanced the storytelling and that was kind of really unique to the plot. And every character did that in their own fashion. Yeah, I think it's healthy to let characters do that thing. It's healthy to let us do that. No, I agree. So we kind of dove into that, the D and D perspective of things. But now I think Tony, we should look at the biblical perspective when it comes to rejoicing, celebrating or carnivals slash festivals, yeah, and then what it's like to process, ie caravan stops. And I use the word process in that term intentionally. And I think mine, I don't think I know we will get to that, but let's hold up first. So if we take a look at the biblical perspective, you know, of rejoicing, celebrating, processing, you know, where, like, where do we see those things in the Bible? All three of those things are extremely biblical, and we can, we can show that, right? John chapter two, for example, when you begin in verse one, obviously there's a miracle that perceives that, but Jesus was attending a wedding at Cana. Right? The Bible, when you look at it, uses a lot of biblical imagery, and a lot of it happens to be in weddings, talking about brides and bridegrooms and stuff like that, and having this kind of biblical imagery, why would God not enjoy celebration and joy? Yeah, you know, another thing I thought of is the story of the prodigal son. When the prodigal son came home in his brokenness, covered in poop and all this stuff, the father met him, clothed him with a ring and a robe, and what did he say? He yelled back to the servant in Luke, chapter 15, verse 23 and said, then Bring the fattened calf and slaughter it, and let's celebrate with a feast. Right? Rejoicing changes our perspective, and it honestly ignites our faith, you know, it brings us back to a place where we feel loved and cherished when we're either in the deep mess and in the deep messes that we're in, or if we're in the season of celebrating affirms our belief on the mountain tops, you know, and the Bible talks so much about. Yeah, even just this, the concept of processing, like the Bible says, Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. That's Romans. I think it's Romans 12. But like, why? Because God wants us to celebrate our victories, the victory that we have in Him. God also wants us to process the things that we battle right. We were never called to constantly be in negativity and sadness. So Tony, why does the world thrive on negativity, sadness, all these things?

Tony Benda 25:33
Well, the world is constantly in a season of negativity because they're without Christ, first and foremost, the Bible talks about having joy in the Lord. They're the joy of the Lord is my strength. So without the joy of the Lord, I feel like the world is stuck in negativity and can't get past that. That's why we're called to be the salt in the light. That's why we're called to that's good, yeah, shed that light on people and bring them joy in the Lord. I

Josh Shaw 26:06
think when it comes to shedding the light, the Bible talks about that nothing will remain hidden in the dark, but it will come to the light. And I think people are inherently afraid for things to come to the surface. But I think the refiners fire is about bringing things to the surface. When gold is melted down and found for impurities, it has to get so hot, so malleable that the impurities rise to the surface, and then the forger grabs the sifter to grab the impurities out so that only pure gold remains. And I think the world thrives on negativity and sadness because there is so much brokenness that they will do whatever, use whatever coping mechanisms to keep that negativity inside. It almost like it almost become like they're people's negativity and sadness. And I've been here, I'm not speaking from a place of I think. I'm speaking a place from my no people thrive and joke and live in that negativity and sadness, it becomes that's essentially, like, where dark humor comes from. Like, we thrive off of dark humor, because a lot of times we just laugh at these things, but we don't take the time to realize, like, sometimes the things we laugh at may actually be happening to us. It's because we don't take time to process it. It's because we don't take time to rejoice. And the thing of it is, is I don't think people know how I don't think people genuinely know how to

Tony Benda 27:50
rejoice. I don't think so either.

Josh Shaw 27:54
I had to learn. But the beautiful thing is, is we're here to help with that as we give you our perspectives on what it's like to DM and play as a in a carnival or a caravan stop, but now we want to transition and take you down a journey of rejoicing and celebrating On mountain tops and valleys and processing exactly what that what that looks like. Yeah, so let's begin. Let's, let's. Let's dive into that a little bit. Let's start with the pretty simple stuff, rejoicing and celebrating. Right? God rejoices over us. So we're, I believe we're called to rejoice for others, over others, for ourselves in the Lord, it is an extremely biblical place. So Tony, why? If it is biblical, why rejoice and celebrate in the high places? What's the Bible have to say about that? What do you what you have to say about that?

Tony Benda 28:52
Well, I'll just reiterate what the Bible says, because the Bible is like the ultimate, you know, I guess instruction manual, amen. It's not just a set of guidelines. No, it's, it's the Bible stands for basic instructions before leaving Earth. So I'm gonna follow those instructions. Oh, oh. It says, Rejoice in the Lord always and again I say rejoice. That's found in Philippians, four, four. So rejoicing in the Lord is biblical. Therefore we should just do it like Nike says, Just do it.

Josh Shaw 29:30
And child above but who's counting?

Tony Benda 29:33
Sorry, had to go there. Uh, no, but for real it. It is a biblical thing. And Hebrews 10 talks about it too. Do you want to read that? Josh?

Josh Shaw 29:43
I do. And the reason I like Hebrews 10 is because Philippians four, four says, Rejoice in the Lord. Always I say again, rejoice a repeated statement denotes importance, especially in the Hebrew context, especially verily, verily, yes, Verily, verily. But Hebrews. 10. So we talked about rejoicing over the Lord, you know, rejoicing in the Lord, but there's also, there's also power and encouragement. How we rejoice over others. Hebrews 10 says, and let us consider how to stir up one another, to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another. And all the more as you see the day drawing near, D and D, we gather to have fun and do these things. A great Christian D and D group will gather, have fun, eat and be with each other, but they also pray for each other and encourage one another in those seasons. Had to get that off there. But Hebrews chapter three, verse 13, also says something very particular as well that had caught my attention in my personal devotion time. And it says, But exhort one another, encourage another every day, as long as it is called today, that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Yeah, and that's deep, because that context is saying, Should we not encourage we can easily listen to the voice of something that's not Christ, but we are not here because of us, but Christ in us. We encourage one another because Christ encourages us. Christ lives in us when we don't thank God for where we are, we are in danger of praising ourselves for getting to the top. And that is the essence of pride, yep, like when we get that promotion, when we get this great thing, when we do that great thing, should we not rejoice in the Lord over it, praise God for what he's done. Tell our friends so we can exalt over God and saying our congratulations and amazing jobs, pride will sink in. Tony. What are the dangers of that pride sinking in? What does that do? What does that do to a person? Well,

Tony Benda 32:10
Proverbs 1618, says Pride goes before destruction in a haughty spirit, before a fall. That Scripture is deep. It is deep and it's also dangerous, because it's talking about falling from Pride. So talking about that proverb, it could be hazardous both to our physical health and our spiritual health, because I sure don't want to fall from Pride, no, and I don't want my spiritual health to decline because of pride either. It's

Josh Shaw 32:37
kind of like when you know you're struggling, and you refuse to go to the doctor. Yes, like you have a persistent cough, like me, and I'm sure my wife would attest to that. Yep, you have a persistent cough. You're like, I'll just sleep it off. I'll just do this. I'll do that. And then you finally go to the doctor. Be after the after they you know, people you love continued to what you you believe or perceived to be them nagging you the doctors like, yeah, you've actually got pneumonia.

Tony Benda 33:07
Congratulations, congratulations. It's worse than just a tickle in your throat. The

Josh Shaw 33:12
only thing that happened was you just had pride, yeah, and we're like, almost, I'm a man all stubbornness. I'll figure it out. Obstinance, folks, you will fall so hard if pride continues to creep in and creep in and creep in and creep in, and Christ will allow so much opportunity for escape from that. That's Biblical, yeah? But when we choose to not go that way, it's, it's just like, it's like climbing up a ladder continuously, and to be honest, I would rather fall from a four foot ladder than a 30 foot ladder, because I can, because I can handle, I can handle a couple bruised drips and maybe a broken arm from a four foot ladder. But there is a lot more trauma and pain that comes from falling from a 30 foot ladder. That's right, there's a lot more rehab. There's a lot more fixing. There's a lot more things that you're gonna have to have to go through when you fall from a 30 foot ladder. And

Tony Benda 34:04
it's not just a physical pain that you're gonna be dealing with, oh no, oh no, when you're gonna be dealing with because

Josh Shaw 34:09
the crazy part is, is when you, when you finally fall, you're gonna look at a ladder and say, I don't want to go up there again. Yeah. But God, but God wants us to keep going higher and higher, not from a positional standpoint in the world, but a positional standpoint in sanctification. God wants us to keep traveling higher, but if we fall from that height, it's going to be so hard to get back up and to say, I want to go back up there. Do you sell? Do y'all sell us a favor? Rejoice in the Lord over him and not the bride? Yep, which, speaking of that, a lot of the reason that sets in is because of low places. The caravan stops that we talk about. What so why do we rejoice in low places? I had a I had a pastor. I. Yeah, I went through some pretty rest stuff recently, and as I was getting counsel through my pastor, I didn't know what to do, and I was struggling, and my pastor smiled and said, Man, you should be praising God through it. And I was in my mind, and I didn't verbalize this out loud, praise the Lord. But I was like, I want to throw punch you straight. That's real. That's real. I was like, I want to throw punch you. Why should I praise in the middle of this, of this mess? This is the worst thing I've probably experienced, and to be quite real folks, it honestly was, why would I want to praise in this time again? It's It's Biblical. It is biblical to praise in the low places. In fact, it is encouraged. The beautiful part about this place is that it brings us closer to God. It humbles us, teaches us, refines us. There is so much more going on in the spiritual realm and the spiritual things of God, which is why we're called to rejoice in the middle of sufferings. And we're going to read out some scriptures, and as you read them, kind of just describe them a little bit, right? Romans, chapter five, verses three through four. We'll start with this one says, Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope. Paul is saying, and to that effect, suffering is not fun, but suffering does build something. You know, I've never been a fan of, like, Pastor, like, there's a purpose in your suffering, folks, because that can, that can diminish sometimes, that people are going through. But what if it wasn't about finding the purpose and the suffering? What is it? What if it was just about rejoicing in the suffering, not expecting what God should do, could do, would do anything, but simply just saying, God, this is a mess that is, that sucks, but you're here. You're here. 21 of the scriptures we've gotten there.

Tony Benda 37:17
I want to bring us back to that Philippians, four verse again, Rejoice in the Lord. Always again, I will say, rejoice. But the thing is that verse continues on to say, Let your gentle spirit be known to all men the Lord is near. Be anxious for nothing but in everything by prayer, in supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ, Jesus, finally brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is good, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence, and if anything worth it and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. So that means, in the High Times, in the low times, rejoice, but also be anxious for nothing, and let your request be made known to God with prayer and supplication and Thanksgiving and think on the good things.

Josh Shaw 38:28
I love how it says in verse five, let your gentle spirit be known to all men. Yeah, I don't know why that sticks out to me. Maybe that's sticking out to somebody now, but ponder on that, I think in the moments rejoicing in the middle of that forces us into a position where we're like, I have nowhere else to be. But in this moment, a spirit of gentleness, something to reflect on. I love that Tony. Last one I want to touch on is First Thessalonians, five verses, 16 through 18. Says, Rejoice, always, pray, constantly, give thanks in everything. Check this, for this is God's will for you in Christ, Jesus, I think the biggest question, I think we ask as church goes to like, well, what's God's will for me in my life? First, Thessalonians, 516, through 18, is God's will? Rejoice, always pray, constantly, give thanks in all things. That's, that's, that's like, as simple as it gets right there. What's the will of God in my life? That's it to never stop rejoicing. That means in the good, the bad, the ugly, the terrible, the beautiful, the hurt, the pain, everything. Praying constantly. You. Yeah, that means talking to your father about everything, about all the hurts and the pains and the ugly, the detestable things. You know, I was actually Hebrews chapter four, verse 16, talks about for we, essentially it talks about how we approach the throne of grace with confidence. I could not say the Greek word for it at all, but the word confidence denotes freedom and speaking, unreservedness and speech, being free and fear, having free and fearless confidence, cheerful courage, boldness and assurance. In other words, it's saying you can openly, free from judgment, free from everything. Go to God with the things that you're like, Ah, I don't, I don't want God to see that. No God wants to see it. Why? Because God already knows it. So why keep it from him? Yeah, and then give thanks and everything. Gotta didn't get that job, but you're still sovereign. God, I screwed up, but you're still good. I may not be, but you're still good. God, I don't know what to do, but I thank you that you have it in your hands, giving thanks in those things. So the key to celebrating in this, I think, and Tony, you should speak on this too. I think the key to celebrating in this is taking a moment to look at your situation and sitting with it. I think we I think we undermine the value of stillness. I think we undervalue what it means to sit with it and just sit and ponder in it for just a moment. We're like, why would I sit with it? That's dark place to be like, Why would I do that? Why would God say Be still and know that I am God. Why would he say after be still? Say and know that I am God. Quiet yourself and know that I'm God. Know that whatever you may be going through in the moment after you sit with it and you recall and praise that He is God. What you go through is not bigger than the God you serve. That's right. Tony, what do you got on that? Like, how do we celebrate in the middle of the low places? What would what would you do?

Tony Benda 42:56
Well, I've had to celebrate in some low places before, and I've had to keep referring back to whatever is true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, of good repute, if any, excellence and things worthy of praise. Dwell on those things.

Josh Shaw 43:11
How did you dwell then? How did you dwell on those things? Though? Um,

Tony Benda 43:17
it's not an easy thing to do. You have to put yourself in that in that headspace and that mindset of just like, sometimes you just have to do the thing, and sometimes the feelings come later. That's why it's called the spiritual discipline to get down on your knees and pray. That's why it's called a it's a relationship. Sometimes you there's there's some people in my family that I don't want to spend time with, but you do, because that's part of relationship. There's hard times and relationships. There's good times in relationships. In those low points, you still have to put in the work. And I'm not saying Christianity is a work based thing, because it's not. It's a grace oriented religion that's centered around a relationship with Jesus. But in those low points, you need to do the thing, regardless of how you're feeling, to sometimes put yourself in a place where where there's only way to go is up so like, there's a Hillsong song.

Josh Shaw 44:25
Hillsong song,

Tony Benda 44:28
yeah, there's a there's a song by Hillsong. The song is called touch the sky. The chorus, or pre chorus goes and my heart beating, my soul breathing. I found my life when I laid it down, upward, falling, spirit soaring. I touch the sky when my knees hit the ground. That's like, that's always one of those super cool songs, because in the lowest points when you're when you're on your knees, is when you're reaching towards heavenly places like that is just one of those. I don't know that's just one of those things that are memorable to me, is like, I find worship to be a very, I don't want to say soothing, because it's not about our feelings. It's about this whole Christian walk thing. Should not be about feelings. It should be about, again, that relationship that we have. But feelings are a part of it, and feelings are valid. But I

Josh Shaw 45:20
don't think. I don't think feelings come after you just do the thing. I think feelings come when you do the thing.

I think they come because

you're starting to do the disciplines. And I don't think feelings are a bad thing. But another my wife actually told me something super profound. She said, you're especially for me, like, I'm just being completely vulnerable and honest, like in this moment, a lot of the things recently I have had to go through, I'm start, I'm seeking mental health counseling, yeah, and that's that's just being real and vulnerable, and I've loved every moment of it. And my wife told me we were just writing in the car, and I was just, I'm learning to be vulnerable and honest and giving my wife my thoughts, and she said, and she just felt something on her spirit, and she's like, Josh, I feel like I need to tell you something. I was like, Okay, go ahead. She said, Your feelings are not invalid, but that doesn't mean every thought is trustworthy. God sits with us in our feelings, in those moments of this is the worst and will allow us to sift those feelings. But what may come from the feelings, the thoughts that you may have, you need to be careful and sift those things through the word of God, because not every thought is trustworthy. That's why it requires prayer, community relationship. Because if you're not, if you're trying to go get through your low place without God, you're going to travel to a very dark place. But here's the beautiful thing about dark places. Abby Gamboa with upper room in her pure album. For one that album is so raw, oh my gosh. Anyway, there's a song called Moon flower. I had to study what a moon flower was. A moon flower is a flower that grows, typically in the tropical or even colder climates, and it is a flower that blooms only at nighttime. In moonlight, at daytime, you can see it's bloom, but at night time it is like a vibrant flower, and nighttime in particular, when it blooms, it lets off this sweet and beautiful aroma. Only at night time. Abby Gamboa sings this song about being in the dark, and she ends with this lyric, I heard about a garden somewhere south of London where Moon flowers are hanging overhead, and though they're lovely in the night, the gardener said, come back tonight, the darkness makes the fragrance rise. And that lyric has stuck to my soul about low places. But when you're in the darkest seasons, your praises are only going to travel up, yep, but if you don't praise it all, it's not going to go anywhere. God will still sit with you. And I'm not saying that rejoicing is going to change it all immediately. It is going to take time. It is going to take healing, and is going to take a lot of things to get there. Tony's right relationship with God is not based on good works, but in the kingdom of God, there is work required. Yep, there. We can't just pray for everything and not do anything and magically wait for it to go away, correct? It requires some work to get there, which is why Tony, we talk about caravan stops and processing, processing, and I want to allude back to this. There's a reason I call it processing, right? A lot of people, some some people put the term like maybe grieving into it. I think grieving is a category, but processing really goes through all of these things. To process something means to go through all of the emotions that come with the hilltop, with the mountain tops and the valleys and all those things, processing is such a vital part of this walk with Christ, because God already knows our hearts, and he doesn't call us to keep those issues sheltered at the depths of our hurting hearts. Right? For one, you should process through your praises, process in the middle of praise, like man, I. What is it that is just, what is this fire that's within me, process that sit with God, with that because, because when you're processing that praise, you're not you're you're throwing cup of praise, but you're also centering yourself back into who God is. Because being on that mountain top is the very best opportunity to dive into the deep things of God. And if you're filled with the Holy Spirit, it is the Holy Spirit that knows the deep things of God. So if you partake with the Holy Spirit, Why could you not know the deep things too?

That's good, but some,

but knowing those deep things is going to require a different is going to require process. To process. There are some proverbs I read this week that really shook me to my soul, because we also have to process in the dark places too. And check this out. Proverbs, 25 verse, 20 says this kind of crazy singing songs to a troubled heart is like taking off clothing on a cold day, or like pouring vinegar on soda. That's y'all. I can't mess with y'all. That's scripture, that is the Bible. And I was like say, Well, no, what does it mean? Does it mean we shouldn't try to encourage others or sing prayers over them? No, we definitely should. We should be singing and praying over people, but what we need to be is sensitive to where they are. There are times that some worship songs aren't what I need. Time you real about that. There are times that there are some worship songs. There are times that I just don't need. Chris Tomlin,

Tony Benda 51:30
amen,

Josh Shaw 51:31
there are times that I just, I just don't want. Michael W Smith, no haters, not hating on anybody that does that. But there are just times like there are some lyrics that I just don't need in that moment, but there are other songs that I hear that speak to the pain that I feel. Moon flowers is one of them. That's why I brought it up. Moon flowers spoke to the pain that I feel, that I have felt in this season. We need to learn to sit with people in the hard moments and process where we are and process where we are in those same moments. You need to be able to find your location. I think other people like like an iPhone, a lot of other people can see your location, but a lot of times you don't identify where your location is. And if you're not aware of where you are, you can't be aware of where you need to go.

That's good. We

need to see the general location, and we need to choose to move past that place. But that place takes processing, pondering, that scripture from Proverbs is essentially saying, know what it means to rejoice with those who rejoice. Know the proper time to weep with those who are weeping. The Word of God and the New Testament doesn't say rejoice with those who are weeping and weep with those who are rejoicing. Because if Tony, if I was in a mountain top and Tony came up to me weeping, I would think something's wrong with him. But imagine someone, imagine your friend, like weeping, crying up to you and like, what's wrong? Like,

I just, oh my gosh, this moment is like crazy. You're like, what?

What's happening here? And maybe that's not a bad thing. Maybe they come up to you and they're weeping because they just, they're weeping with joy over what you're doing. But that's their rejoicing, of what those who are rejoicing? Yeah, Job's, friends were the perfect example of Proverbs, 25 verse 20, you can't play your friends like that. Sometimes you just gotta sit with your friends while they're in the mess. Sometimes it ain't the time to to throw up the Bible verse or the worship song, but ask the Lord how you can do it. When is the right time? Aaron had to sit with me in my time Tony, I was going through a bad place, and Aaron didn't say a word about Scripture. He just cried with me. Simple so Tony, it looks different for everybody to process. Let's be honest,

Yep, let's be vulnerable. Let's

be real for a second. Ready? What does it look like for you to process both in rejoicing On mountain tops and in those valleys? The

Tony Benda 54:28
mountain tops? I don't know. I think the mountain tops, they could be easier sometimes, but they also could be very difficult, because not not all the time. Do I think about processing of the mountain top times because it's such a good time. Why do I need to sit back and reflect? I want to keep, you know, going further into that good time. Yeah, so human, human nature would not want to take a break from something that's good. I. Yeah, but I think one of the ways that I've processed in a good time is you hear the phrase to stop and smell the roses. That's like, it's a very common phrase that, you know people use when you're in a busy or hectic season, to stop and smell the roses. But there have been times that I've like in a in a good situation, like, I'll take a concert, for example, here at our church, we host different concerts, like, big touring events. Like we've had newsboys, we've had Brandon lake was here in November. Like, we've had these, you know, big, big Christian concert events and things like that. So like, there are days that I'm like running around, because that's my role here at the church is I'm the Minister of production. It is hectic leading up to concert day. It is hectic on concert day. I want to rip out what little hair I have on concert day. Some of these people are phenomenal to work with. And I'm talking like, not, not the artists themselves. I mean, the artists are cool, but like the the tour personnel, like the lighting directors, this the sound engineers, the the occasional, amazing, what's it called promoter. There are some promoters that are phenomenal. There's been a couple that have given me hard time, but whatever, that's the role of the promoter. But there have been these hectic times that I have to like, there's, there's such good times, but crazy times. And in the midst of the concert itself, I'm in there, you know, just watching from the back, and I'm just like, This is so cool. God, you're so good. Thank you for this. Like, I'm sitting in like, our our sound booth or our camera booth, and I'm just like, This is so cool. Who would have thought that Brandon lake would be on the stage that I lead worship from the next morning? Like, that's just a cool thing. And I'm just like, God, you're so good. Thank you for this. That's like a high mountain top contemplation thing, for sure, but or a processing moment on that mountain top, I think in the low points, what I like to do is I like because I'm a creative, I'm a I'm a musician, I'm a writer, whatever you want to call it, even though I don't call myself that all the time, a writer, necessarily. But there have been like low points, like super low points, like when my nephew Odin died from hepatoblastoma, which is a stage four liver cancer that he was diagnosed with at the eight he was 18 months when he was diagnosed. He lost his battle with cancer in December of 2019, we had his service in January of 20, and for that service, I wrote a song. So in like, one of the lowest points, really, for any of our family, that was one of the way, ways that I was able to process that situation. I was able to craft a story in through music and then display that at the funeral, which is a really, really cool thing. I recorded a cello part for it with my cousin in Ohio, so it was a multi person event, but from start to finish, wrote a song in a week, had it recorded in Chicago and Ohio, and had the service in North Carolina, and there's a lot of traveling involved, but that was the way I processed it. I had to both keep myself busy. I had to pour out feelings and emotion and all of this stuff and seek the Lord through it. Because that was I'm not a lyricist by any means, but I felt like in that moment, that was totally a God thing like that. Those lyrics even came so thank you, Lord for that. And I may or may not post the link in our show notes, because I hold very tightly to my music.

Josh Shaw 58:55
Tony's humble, because he's actually an incredible, incredible writer. As you can tell he crafted our entire 15 seconds of our opening little jingle, jingle.

Tony Benda 59:08
I like theme song, theme song.

Josh Shaw 59:11
Yeah, there we go. I don't know, I couldn't think of the words for it. I totally agree with you. I think when we are in those mountain top seasons, we don't want to get down, but I don't think of it as getting down, I think. And I think as I've been going through my season, I look back and I'm like, in the mountain tops, I do so much writing. I'm also a writer. I love to write. I love to write down the big things that I find of God, and I like to do that, but I also find that in those times, I didn't process anything. I didn't I didn't build as many ebenezers as I wanted to, and I felt like God was wanting me to, and I'm like, if I had just taken the time to process and. The middle of that to be still. I feel like when we get into those mountain tops, like I just climbed up a mountain, and I'm gonna continue to run, and I feel like we get so caught up and running that we don't realize we're actually running out of breath. Why? Because we've run away from Yahweh when you look at the when you look at the word Yahweh, y h, w h, there was no vowels in the Hebrew, ancient Hebrew, so Yahweh was y, h, w h, and ya the semblance of Yahweh is to take a deep breath. Is when you go it's a symbol of breath, when you look at human anatomy, when you do an x ray, when you do a deep X ray, and investigation of the lungs, the lungs and the way the veins and arteries run, looks like the root of a tree. God crafted us so beautifully, and yet, in the mountain tops, I wish I would take time to just not take a step back. That's not what I'm saying. But rather than sprinting, simply walking and enjoying the view, smelling the roses, almost can't smell roses while you're running, preach also, there's nothing in the Gospel. There's nothing in the Word of God that implies that God or Christ was in a hurry to do anything. Yeah, Christ didn't run a marathon to Samaria. In fact, boat wasn't, I mean, in in perspective, boat was clearly faster than walking, but boat wasn't airplane. Boat still took time. Christ was on a boat saying, Are we there? Yeah. Are we there? Are we there? Yeah, I gotta go. I gotta go preach. No, he was. He fell asleep on a boat the middle of a rainstorm. There's nothing that implied that Christ was in a hurry. Another thing for another time,

he also spent 40 days in the desert. That's what I'm saying. Before his ministry, he wasn't rushing to run out of the out of the desert, what it looks

like for me in those in those seasons, was a lot of running, a lot of praising, again, not bad things. But I'm learning for those things. One thing I will attest to is what I do in the week times before all the stuff that I've been through happened. A lot of the ways I would process in the low moments was not do anything. Honestly, a lot of the things I do the process is sleep. I even use air quotes to it, quote, unquote. Pray. A lot of my prayer time was just kind of like just asking, God, where are you? And not listening, but just venting. I was revealed to a different place. Now my low places, I admit that I'm weak, and that is so backwards in the world. Why? Because everyone's like, you need to be strong. You need to go into your in your job every day, mentally fit, mentally ready, strong and ready to go always, all the time you need to be ready, steadfast, not steadfast. That's the term I'm getting to, I don't even know where I'm trying to use just you can't, you can't be weak. That is such a wrong mentality. Why Second Corinthians, chapter 12, verse nine, Paul says, after being identified to a thorn in the flesh, heard from Christ, and Christ said to him, My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. And Paul says, Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong. So if you're listening, get rid of the strong men mentality. Being weak is okay. In fact, it's encouraged. And if you're like me, I went into a deep dive of like, well, Joshua was told to be strong and courageous. Paul is saying, when I'm weak, then I'm strong. So isn't that a contradiction? No, it's not. What about the what is it about the word strong? Then, if it's not, if the, if the Bible doesn't have contradictions, what is it about the word strong? The, the Hebrew word for strong and, and I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna do it. Ready. Kazakh means to be strengthened, prevail hardened. Be strong. Become strong. Be firm, grow firm. Be resolute. Dig deeper into the Strong's Concordance. Other words that relate to this are to be obstinate and. To be constant, to be encouraged, to be established or fastened to so when Joshua, what was he said? What was God saying? In three three times in Joshua, chapter one tells him to be strong and courageous. He was telling Joshua to be fastened upon, to be constant, steadfast in who God was, not what Joshua was capable of. Joshua had to realize that without God, he was weak, because he wouldn't succeed. Continue reading the book of Joshua, and it will reveal that Joshua only won battles with God when he was without God, he would lose. Also, funny enough, when I dug deeper with the word Hazak, whenever the word strong is used, or be of courage, is used in the Bible, in the Old Testament, it is that word chazak, all the occurrences that I could find is that same primitive Hebrew word Hazak, to be strong. So what does that mean? Then it's okay to be weak. We were never called to process our issues alone. We can't flee from the party. We can't flee from having those carnivals or caravan moments, right? We need to draw ourselves closer to a sound having a sound mind in our lives. In fact, better than that. Draw close to the one who knows your heart and lean on his understanding alone. Proverbs, chapter three, verses five through six, but also Proverbs, 24, five, says, a wise warrior is better than a strong one all, and a man of knowledge than one of strength. For you should wage war with sound guidance. Victory comes with many counselors. We try to combat and process with the thought of, I'll be strong. But all, all being strong, that, quote, unquote, being strong, does is we push that further down the deep well, and then we end up looking at Christ like the Samaritan woman, saying, uh, it's too deep, and you don't have anything to draw from that, well, from but God is looking at us, saying, I know you better than you know you. The wells you keep drinking from, you will continue to thirst. But if you drink from my well, you will have an endless supply, you will never thirst again. In fact, my counselor today told me this the testimony of the Samaritan woman was essentially this. God saw me before anybody else saw me. This testimony of the Samaritan woman was before I knew about me. God knew me. Come look at the man who I didn't know, but knew me. God knows everything about you. God knows what you've been through, how you're dealing with it. God sees you in your valleys. God sees in your mountain tops. But if you don't take time to process through that pain, or process that he's there when you're rejoicing, he'll be like Elijah. You try to find God in the big moments, but he wants you to be there in this, in this still, small voice,

Tony Benda 1:08:38
not in the wind, not in the fire. And you know, the crazy

Josh Shaw 1:08:40
thing is, is when they tried to, when he tried to find them in that, it's like, that's like us. We try to, we only perceive God to be in the big things, prophetic word, intense moments of worship or revival, being at the altar. But God is, God's with you at the dinner table. That's right. God's with you when you open up the word and you're praying, you're closing your eyes. God's with you on the drive. God is with you in all

Tony Benda 1:09:06
places. He's with you at 2am when you can't sleep.

Josh Shaw 1:09:10
He's right there holding your hand. But we don't want God in the still, small voice. We want God in the big moments, because that's where God does his best work now God does his best work when your heart is humble before him and ready to surrender and let go. God does his best work when you realize that his grace is sufficient, not people. God does his best work when you are ready to be weak and not strong. That's why we process so Tony as we begin to close. How do we prepare our hearts for these various seasons? What are we what should we do? How should we move then? Or move therefore?

Tony Benda 1:09:58
Well, like with any. Thing, we have to find a practical way that we can do this, something that we can keep, I would say, a spiritual discipline, in a sense, correct for both the highs and the lows. One of the things we could do is pray for both carnival stops and Caravan moments. We have to stay connected to God. It's that relationship thing that we talked about, if we're not again establishing that relationship, keeping that connection pouring into the relationship like we should, we could disconnect, and then we could be stuck in our moments longer than we intended to, or longer than we want, or longer than God intends for us. So we have to draw near to Him, and He will draw near to

Josh Shaw 1:10:44
us. Amen. Bucha James, yep.

Tony Benda 1:10:47
Another way we could do that is through reflection. We can look back on how God has been faithful in the past with highs and lows. Some people like to do different prayer journals, or prayer or praise journals to where they're, you know, writing in their requests at different points in their lives, and then leaving a space for God to answer that next to you or below or whatever it is in that prayer journal. So those are really good ways of looking back on how God has been faithful. I mean, even you could even just look in your own life. You don't have to have a prayer journal, but for me specifically, like I can look back and say that when I was younger, I wanted to be a dad, like I've always wanted to be a dad. That was one of the things I want to aspire to be someday. I've prayed for it. Prayed for it. Went through highs and lows. Prayed for it some more. Finally, met my wife, and here we are. Three years later, we have a amazing baby girl with the most beautiful eyes ever. She says sweet. Now she's the point of talking back, but anyway, four months in, and it's just been amazing. So reflection on that whole time has just been awesome. That's one of the things I like to look back on recently and just rejoice for. What about you? What are some of your Do you have any recent reflections, or any other ideas on how we can rejoice, both in highs and lows?

Josh Shaw 1:12:17
I think a recent reflection, for me, you kind of already touched base on it, like seeing what the Lord has already done. Journaling is a big one. Yeah. One thing also you've mentioned the word spiritual disciplines is learning spiritual rhythms. I think we get so caught up in the mentality that, okay, I need to wake up at 5am I need to pray, I need to read, then I need to eat breakfast, then I need to read some more. And then I'm gonna go to work when I'm at lunchtime, I gotta read. And then when I get off of work, then I'm gonna go home and read, and then I'm gonna pray my quiet time, because I gotta be so we get so caught up in the spiritual disciplines, but we over routine them. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't know my spiritual discipline looks like. Every day I wake up in the morning, I handle my life with my family on the way to work, I worship at my lunch time is when I get to spend my quiet time. I get to connect with God. Then at the end of the day, I get to be with my family. I get to rejoice with them. I get to go home, and I get to read the Bible with my wife, and then I get to sit with her on the couch. On the couch and praise God that she's with me. Yep, that is just as powerful as somebody in a book saying, if you don't wake up at 5am and read your word, you're not going to have a great day. Because that is baloney. That is spiritual discipline. Baloney. Routine has no room for spontaneity, spontaneity, but spiritual rhythms, lots of cool songs have different rhythms. Yeah, jazz Samus,

Tony Benda 1:13:54
you go to jazz rocks. I love honey. I'll even say the artist Yanni rhythms. I

Josh Shaw 1:14:02
love a good I love a good chick. Corea, rhythm. I love a good seven, eight. That's what I'm saying. But with life, you're never gonna know rhythm you're gonna get. But if you just, if you just walk in with a spiritual rhythm of life, like, Okay, this day's hitting me. You know what? That's okay. I know how I like to spend my time with the Lord. I may not be able to do it at 5am but maybe I can do it at 7am at 7am here. Oh man, it's a little tight today. No big deal. Just a different rhythm to a song. Maybe at lunchtime I can do some praise and worship. That's what I'm saying. Little find a way a spiritual rhythm that brings you close to God, that celebrates him. God just wants you to be with them, whatever that may look like. And the last thing is community, surround yourselves with community of people that love you, that will encourage you and strengthen you, that you know. Pray for you that will come alongside you when you're when you're in your toughest moments, in those dark moments, you will say these words, man, I feel alone, but don't stop going to church. Don't stop praying, because when you go into those moments, people will see if you're real, will see your brokenness, and they will join around you if they love you. I had a friend at church. I all, I just, I was sitting there crying, and the Lord was like, just go hug him. And that man didn't have to just throw a Bible at me. That man just hugged me and prayed over me and said, We're gonna get through this together, step by step, moment by moment, prayer, reflection, community, spiritual disciplines and staying in the word, yeah, that's huge. It is not a superficial statement. It is a profound statement all the time, stay in the word you get out of the word you're going to get out of, the living and breathing thing of God in your life. I think people view the Bible as just the book of words, but it's not. I view my Bible now as a heartbeat and a set of lungs that will breathe into my life. Yep, it is living and active sharper than any double edged sword, as far as penetrating to the soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, everything. Becomes naked and exposed to the Word of God, to his power. And I've honestly loved this episode so much. Talk about how we can rejoice in the mountain tops and the valleys, or our carnivals and Caravan stops. Take assessment and realize that both seasons are okay. Both seasons are necessary. Remember to stop at caravan. Stops to process and reflect. Remember to stop at carnivals and just have some fun. Yeah, just rejoice. Have an elephant here or two. That's what I'm saying. Stop by the churro stand. You may feel full, but another churl just might do it for you.

Tony Benda 1:17:07
Cotton Candy's light. It's fine. And

Josh Shaw 1:17:09
if you're dieting, man, go put some ranch on that salad. There ain't nothing long wrong with little ranch sometimes, but ranch has in supers and cars. Man, it's okay. I ain't judging it. Listen, if you're disciplined like that, good for you. Praise you. But man, put some ranch on the salad, maybe some 1000 island and some croutons if you're feeling real, real frisky. Oh, that's not the right word. I don't like frisky. Um, wrong word. They're gonna change that. Put some 1000 island and some croutons on there. If you're feeling just real, like a go getter, I don't know. I love it. This is great, Tony. You do so well closing this out, I could never close this out, because I forget everything by the time I'm done,

Tony Benda 1:18:01
that's all good. Last bit of encouragement. Remember the source of your joy. Rejoice in hope. Be patient in tribulation and be constant in prayer. That's what Romans 12 has to say. Rejoice in the Lord. Always again I say rejoice. That's good. It's repeated because it's important,

so we'll close with that. But thank you for hanging with us today. This episode has been all for the place, but it's been fun. It's been great. I feel like we've gotten out of our rhythm. Why? What do you mean? Just we've been pushing it late and late, later and later each time. And I don't know we were ahead for a period where we got like small period, there was like a small period, like we, I think two episodes. We let that gap go real big, yeah, and then traveling got in the way, and then, but it's okay. Here's the

Josh Shaw 1:18:56
thing, life will hit us in the face. That is, that is a guarantee, and we apologize for that. It hits us in the face just like it hits you guys too. So that's the realness and vulnerability of it. We are going to always try our best for you guys. And we thank you for giving us the time to just listen and to come Yeah. And we, I will continue to say this. Just share this episode with one friend that needs it. Just one, just one that that's how we continue to grow, grow this thing. We get these emails in and we're loving what's going on if you're a part of a community, if you're part of I know we've gotten emails with teachers doing things in their schools. We get, you know, we got an email from a youth pastor last week that just warmed our hearts. Shout out to pastor, Aaron, yeah, thank you, Pastor. Aaron Trey, keep doing what you're doing. We see you, we hear you, we believe in you. We're loving what you're doing. We're loving it, dude, it is so cool. Keep sharing it, you know. And that's but that's the thing. Reach out to us. We want to hear. We want to we want to zoom call with you guys and hear the. Stories and how we can collaborate and work together to share, not only just this podcast, but share what you guys are doing through communities. We want this to grow. We desire this to grow, but the only way we're going to grow is not just by ourselves. We can do all what we want to on social media, but it starts with all of us, starts as this community. Let's grow this community. Let's get it bigger. Let's get it going. Post it everywhere, share it everywhere. Talk to people about it.

Tony Benda 1:20:28
That's right, and where you can find all that stuff, yeah, there it is. Is on Facebook and Instagram. We are at dungeons and Disciples, with the word and spelled out, that's dungeons, a, n, d disciples on both Facebook and Instagram, or you guys can email us at dungeons disciples without the aunt dungeons disciples@gmail.com and you know, it doesn't take long, but if you could rate the show, maybe, I don't know, actually helps a lot more than people think. If you're not subscribed already, please consider subscribing, because we love doing this, and we want more people to I guess, hear what we're doing, not even just what we're doing, but like what God is doing through our medium of podcasting, because there's a lot of cool stories to tell, and we want to tell some of your stories as well. So we're not just keeping it to ourselves. We want the Word of God out there, especially in the D and D community, where it can be a dicey community. Sometimes, I've been on some of the Facebook pages recently of like Christian D and D stuff. There's been some like arguments, folks. I don't know what's going in the going on in the water in some of these places. But, man, even Christian D D players need some encouragement in their lives. So share this out with people.

Josh Shaw 1:21:47
Last thing I will say is this, and Tony and I ponder it. We were talking about it today, especially prior to the episode, which would be funny, prior, if it was fun, you know, if we we want this to grow, we want this to continue going, and the way we do that is through your guys's support. And the one of the ways we can do that, that we've explored is through the use of Patreon. Yes, that is something that we are so open for doing, but we don't want to do unless you guys want us to do it.

Tony Benda 1:22:20
Yeah, yeah. We want, we want to give some extra content, right?

Josh Shaw 1:22:24
We want to do it, but we don't know where to go with it. We want to know what you guys want to see, yeah, just speak into it a little bit, yeah. Just, we'd love to hear your simple email. A simple email is just like, hey, this is what we would love to see and what we would love to do, because it will help draw people in, because we really believe that that is a great medium for a lot more even raw authenticity, just some fun that we get to have prior to the show, some fun after the show, even just funny videos of like us that are even D and D sessions. Just yeah, a quick like, Hey, this is us. This is who we are. Yeah, I'm

Tony Benda 1:22:56
even considering doing some like, adding a video element to the podcasting, because right now we're not doing video podcasting. Obviously, this is all just audio, but video podcasting would be a blast, especially it's a little bit more work. So the work will have to have to be supported a little bit through Patreon or whatever medium we choose. But yeah, we would love for people to reach out if they really want a Patreon, because I know it's valuable for some people. Yeah, and we want to give you guys what you want exactly.

Josh Shaw 1:23:31
Well, Tony, it's been fun. It's been a blast. It's late. It is late, and we're loving it. I'm gonna close this out, if you don't mind, Amen, brother, father, in the name of Jesus, God. We thank you for this time. God. We thank you for just being in this moment. God for teaching us what it means to rejoice, what it means to process. God, I thank you for vulnerable hearts in this place, God, and for those in our listeners, God, I'm a personal testimony of how you worked in my heart through my hardships and calamities. But God, I truly believe that when I am weak, I am strong. I truly believe God that when you speak into these things, that when we really believe that your grace is sufficient, when we really believe in our hearts that your power is made perfect in weakness, God, then we will truly grow and thrive. I pray that if somebody is struggling, God, that they would take time to process with you, not without you. God, that if someone's in the mountaintop, they continue to praise you, God, but they don't forget about taking the moment in solid to just taking a breath. God, Lord, this podcast, everybody listening? God, this is all you. This isn't us. This is you. We. Thank you for speaking through us, God, but it is by Your power and grace that this will grow. That ideas will keep coming in and the endurance to do episodes will keep coming. Lord, give us strength for this. And please encourage and build up our listeners, not just physically with listens God, but in their spiritual lives. Most importantly, Lord, we thank you. We praise you. We give you all the glory and honor that you deserve. God in Jesus, mighty name we pray.

Tony Benda 1:25:29
Amen. Thanks, guys.